This week, Larry speaks with Catherine Jensen, vice president of Global Consumer Experience at Sony Interactive Entertainment. Larry and Catherine discuss PlayStation safety and privacy settings, ways that players can help each other, and the importance of intergenerational play.
“[Safety] starts with conversations,” Catherine tells Larry. “How do we have more conversations with our kids about what’s happening online? What they might have heard their friends say? We try to make it easy so that players can help other players. They don’t always want to come to PlayStation and say, Hey, this is what happened to me. Just like they don’t want to always come to their parents.”
Listen to their conversation below or on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
Listen to “Positive Play on Playstation” on Spreaker.
Transcript
Larry: I’m happy to introduce Catherine Jensen, who is the VP of Global Consumer Experience at Sony Interactive Entertainment. Catherine leads the global strategy for customer care and engagement for PlayStation products and network services. This includes critical areas of the PlayStation Entertainment experience, such as online safety, privacy and security, and platform moderation, including PlayStation 5 game console and network services.
Catherine has over 20 years experience in building, designing, and managing world class global service delivery organizations, and has worked at Symantec, Intuit, and Oracle. And she oversees the online safety for over 100 million PlayStation Network users. Thank you, Catherine. So happy to have you on Are We Doing Tech Right?
Catherine: Awesome. Thank you. I’m so happy to be here today.
Larry: And speaking of doing tech right, PlayStation’s been around for how many years? I know it’s been quite a while.
Catherine: We are actually having our 30th anniversary this year, so many of our original players are now parents, and they are parents of new players.
Larry: And it’s changed a lot. Now, I can’t remember using a PlayStation 30 years ago, but I’m pretty sure that you couldn’t interactively chat with other players, that it was pretty much just a, you know, you versus a console. Or you versus other players in a non social environment. Am I, am I correct in that assumption?
Catherine: Yes, absolutely. PlayStation is known for their interactive storytelling and single player narratives. But at the same time, we do introduce social features, starting with PlayStation 4 and PlayStation 5 that allow you to have different types of social connections with other players, should you choose.
Definitely really advanced in terms of engagement and different types of games over the years.
Larry: And that evolution has also changed the risk factor, if I can use that term. You know, back in the old days, we were still concerned about appropriate content, but we didn’t have to worry so much about interaction.
Uh, and, and contact, but I assume that much of your job or at least some of your job is making sure that users, especially young users, aren’t getting into situations where they might be uncomfortable or in any way, shape, or form in, in any kind of danger as a result of people they encounter online.
Catherine: Yes, absolutely, Larry.
I think a few things. First off, we have absolutely robust parental controls on the PlayStation 5. And it’s easy to set up. It’s very similar to purchasing something online. A parent can go through the steps very easily. If they’re uncomfortable using the controller, they can do it on the web or via the PlayStation app.
They set up a parent account, and then they can, um, set up a child account. And once the child account is established, the parent has control over spend limits. They can limit how much their child can spend on a game or per month. So it can actually be used as an incentive or a reward system as well. They can set up who they can communicate with, with friends or with no one at all.
And they can also set up different times. So if it’s only after school or for a certain amount of time per day, all of that’s very easy for the parents to make sure that the experience is right for their household.
Larry: One thing you said, Katherine, I think that bears elaborating on, you mentioned that they don’t actually have to be sitting at the console in order to do their parental management.
They can, I assume, be at the office, be on their phone, be on their desktop computer, and do their parenting. Even if they’re not one of the many who grew up with PlayStation, they might actually be unfamiliar with the platform in terms of their own personal use of it.
Catherine: Absolutely. So, as I mentioned, you start with a parent account.
That is really to make sure that you can administer the options and selections off the console. So again, whether it’s via your laptop or via your phone, you can receive alerts. When your child would like to play, or to spend, or to communicate with someone, and the parents have the power to approve or reject that request.
And again, they can do it from their phone, they can do it from online, anywhere.
Larry: And you mentioned earlier that many of the parents were in fact PlayStation users themselves when they were younger, but let’s face it, there are probably some who aren’t. And it always strikes me that if you have a child that’s using any technology, whether it’s a game console, a phone, a computer, a tablet, it’s helpful, at least from a, not necessarily from a technical standpoint, but just from a familiarization standpoint, for you to also experience that same platform.
Do you recommend intergenerational play and getting the parents and kids involved in intergenerational play? In actually putting their hands on the platform.
Catherine: Yes, absolutely. Again, we want play to be available and welcoming for everyone. And I think with respect to intergenerational play, certainly the pandemic brought us closer online like never before.
And we want to have welcoming experiences for all with respect to intergenerational play. I have two thoughts on that. The first one is, of course, we want to have conversations about play about responsible online behavior about digital civility. But we also want to make sure that everyone is having fun, that’s the point.
We do have a controller called the access controller that is specifically for people who may have different dexterity or different mobility and that’s to encourage, again, intergenerational play or play with, uh, again, people who may not ordinarily want to pick up a controller or, or be on the console to make it less intimidating.
We also have games that are very friendly and very engaging and are not expecting superior skill online. Astrobots, for example, is coming out in September, and that’s a very welcoming game for people of all ages.
Larry: Yeah, I’m glad you mentioned that, because there’s sort of a stereotype of game consoles as being kind of very fast paced and highly competitive.
And the fact is, like any platform, there’s a wide variety suitable for virtually anyone who wants to experience it.
Catherine: Yes, absolutely. As you mentioned, a wide variety. We have the PlayStation Store, which will run the spectrum from single player, meaning that you don’t get online at all. Those can be immersive experiences where you have perhaps your parents watching what you’re playing as opposed to actually playing with you.
And a number of those games such as Astro Bot or Lego have that option. And then all the way up to competitive gaming. And we have a wide range of options for competitive gaming that people may want to play with their friends or in tournaments. So again, a very wide range of digital content is available in the PlayStation Store.
Larry: Let’s talk a little bit about time management and, and parents’ role, whether it’s using technology to limit how much time a child can spend online or a strategy for just using gentle nudging to say, Hey, it’s time to take a break. I, I think of, you know, my kids used to play soccer. And we would go to their soccer games, and it wouldn’t occur to me in the middle of a soccer game to say, “Hey, Will, it’s time to quit. You need to come inside now.” I would let them finish the game, partially for their own enjoyment, but also in fairness to their teammates and the other team and, and the fact that they’re, they’re part of a group of people that are engaged in this. Talk a little bit about sort of the do’s and don’t, um, of time management and the role that parents can play to help make sure that gaming is part of the balance of what their kids are doing in their lives.
Thanks.
Catherine: Yes, so as I mentioned, we have customizable playtime. That can be per hour or per day. That can be on request. Perhaps you have already completed your homework or your chores and then you want to ask to play. And I think that, you know, it’s Also important for, again, that conversation, who will you be playing with online or are you playing just a single player game online and at home, who can talk to you?
So again, we really encourage parents to have that conversation and the parental controls and the notifications prompt that conversation.
Larry: I want to talk about online toxicity, but I want to preface it by saying that this is a human issue, not a technology issue. You can have toxicity in a, in a playground.
You can have it at the workplace. You can have it at the supermarket. I mean, you know, it’s, it’s people. Talk a little bit about how you try to mitigate, minimize, immunize people from the slings and arrows of what some people do. Some people are mean or insensitive or maybe just don’t mean to be mean but, but wind up hurting other people’s feelings.
Catherine: Yeah, I think that it’s such a great point. We all have the responsibility to manage our own digital civility and to reduce toxicity, right? It starts with each one of us. At PlayStation, we have a global code of conduct that we publish. It is kid friendly as well as available online each time that you sign on.
So we try to make it as relatable as possible, not buried into legalese and in a contract form. But at the same time, we believe in the power of play. Again, we have more than a hundred million players and there will be Players who don’t have the same standards or the same level of digital civility that you do.
And so at PlayStation, we really have a three pronged approach to managing your own experience. The first one is about those personalization settings. You can mute or block any player that you choose, including everyone, right? You may not want to chat or interact with anyone. You just want to play by yourself.
So within control, we have different age settings. Perhaps you’re a new player, a young player. We have very restrictive privacy control. You might be a teen player and you might choose to have a little bit more relaxation in there. Secondly, from a PlayStation perspective, we want to shield you from harmful content.
We have a wide range of technology and microservices that are looking at user generated content, blocking risky URLs or, um, other types of distracting or unwelcome activity. And then finally, we’re going to enforce our code of conduct. We rely on our players to report unwelcome or offensive content, and we take action on that content.
So again, not only removing it, but taking sanctions on the players, if so warranted.
Larry: You’ve talked a little bit about some of the controls that are built in, but what about the conversations that go along with it or ought to go along with it? Do you have any advice for parents who want to make sure their kids are using this technology in a safe and civil way as possible?
Aside from the technology tools?
Catherine: I do think it starts with conversations. How do we have more conversations with our kids about what’s happening online? What they might have heard their friends say? We also offer external services. Not always are our kids going to come to us and ask questions. So we partner with Crisis Text as well as Shout.
We have a key word of circle, which is one of the PlayStation symbols, and it means unity and community, and we want everyone to be able to express their concerns about what they heard or what they felt when somebody was, you know, mean or inappropriate with them. So we’re offering different services to make sure that they can take advantage of that.
We try to make it easy so that players can help other players. They don’t always want to come to PlayStation and say, hey, this is what happened to me. Just like they don’t want to always come to their parents. But I do want to make sure that we’re open for those conversations and to offer that type of direction.
Larry: And let’s talk about the pro social aspects of everybody always talked about the negatives of social media and technology. But as I remember gaming, going back to the elementary school playground all the way through video games is sometimes you make friends, sometimes you learn skills. I mean, sometimes you get emotional support.
Let’s talk about the positive aspects of it as well.
Catherine: Absolutely. I think one of the great things about video games is it encourages curiosity when you’re on those adventures, when you need to find a magic wand or to progress against a quest that encourages curiosity. I think the second thing is this. It encourages risk without actually having physical risk.
You can take chances and there aren’t repercussions. And there is a social aspect. My kids are older, but when my oldest first joined the Navy, how he connected with his younger brother was through the PlayStation. They’d play games, they’d talk to each other online while they were playing, and it’s just a rich source of the way that you can have common, um, Interactions, but also perhaps open up a little bit more about what’s going on in your life.
And again, PlayStation enables those conversations.
Larry: And what about, you know, competition, friendly competition? I mean, is there anything to, I mean, this is an issue, you know, if you’re on AYSO, for example, which is the soccer league in America for young people. really works hard to have people respect not only their teammates, but their competitors.
But, you know, sometimes things get out of hand. It naturally will happen in a high stakes game. How does that work in a PlayStation environment?
Catherine: So I think two parts. As I mentioned, um, you know, we have a reporting function. Uh, so if a player is reporting another player for, um, behavior that might be unwelcome to them, The first thing we’re going to do is offer you suggestions.
Do you want to mute this player? Do you want to block this player? Um, or they can go ahead and report the player and we may send the player a warning about, um, appropriate conduct. Um, we again can take different types of approaches based on offenses. Many times it might just be a warning reminding players about our code of conduct.
Or other times, again, it can be recommending what type of control you can have. We also work with Microsoft and Nintendo because, again, we want to have positive play for everyone. And we have very common methods and, um, activities that we take on, um, accounts that might violate our codes of conduct.
Because, again, we want that positive play for everyone, regardless of platform, regardless of game.
Larry: And let’s talk about content. I mean, as, as you know, of course, not all games are suitable for all people. There are age ratings. Some parents are more concerned about violence. Others are more concerned about sexual content.
I know that you don’t have extremes of violence or extreme sexual content, but clearly, especially if you have young children, there may be content that’s inappropriate. So how can a parent make sure that their child is doing something that they’re comfortable with in terms of the kinds of games they’re playing and content that they’re seeing?
Catherine: Yeah, I think two parts. Sony Interactive Entertainment is part of the ESA, the Entertainment Software Association. But more importantly, we respect the ESRB, which is the rating system for video games. And in our digital store, all of the ratings are explained, and again, you can make informed choices.
There’s a great parental toolkit off of the ESRB’s website as well. Within PlayStation, again, we have a number of different levels of accounts and account controls that you can set up. And those controls are persistent, meaning that when you go to the PlayStation Store, depending on how your account is set up, that’s the type of content you’ll be able to see and ask to purchase.
We have child, which is seven to 12, teen, which is 13 to 15, and then later teens. And these presets that we have will automatically restrict or allow certain content, even in including use of vr. That might be something that you have in your household, but you may not want kids in your household to play that, so that can be restricted as well.
There’s a number of different ways that we’re going to offer control, not only on the PlayStation, but all the way through to the services that you use starting from PlayStation.
Larry: We talked earlier before we started recording about cross platform gaming, the fact that PlayStation, some games can be played with other consoles or PCs or I presume even phones.
How are you able to protect your users if the person on the other end isn’t also on a PlayStation?
Catherine: So, as I mentioned, again, we’re looking to, um, support cross platform play. We want play for, um, everyone and we want that play to be positive. At the moment, we do not allow, uh, cross platform play to include user generated content, so that means that you are not exchanging text chat or voice chat across platform, um, in a non PlayStation game.
If you have a PlayStation game, let’s say, for example, Helldivers 2 is an extremely popular PlayStation game, available both on console as well as on PC. In order for you to communicate and for us to ensure that our controls are persistent, you have to link your PlayStation account, and again, that’s how we ensure the controls and the Common Code of Conduct are in place.
Larry: So, we’ve talked a lot about controls, and I can’t speak for the gaming industry specifically, but I do know that in general, parental controls are often talked about, but less often used. There is a reluctance, or for some reason, parents, they want the controls, but they often don’t use them. What’s been your experience in trying to encourage parents to either use the controls or maybe have a conscious decision and conversation that maybe they don’t need them in their household?
I mean, that’s also a strong possibility, but you know, how do you educate parents about the tools?
Catherine: Yeah, I think it’s a really good point. We do offer a number of different resources to try and demystify parental controls or set up. We have videos that are very easy and you can watch with your kids about.
Not only setting up controls, but why those controls are important and what controls might be, might be right for you and your family. So we also partner with a number of different industry agencies, such as Internet Matters, where kids can take a digital civility class about what’s appropriate online behavior and what isn’t appropriate.
How would you feel if this happened to you? Think about how someone else feels if you use inappropriate language or negative descriptions. So, It really does start with education. We have a quick start guide on the PlayStation 5 that you can scan with your phone, and again, it’ll walk you through things.
To your point, Larry, parental controls only work if you set them up. Too often, I hear from parents who are expressing concerns about experiences, and then I have to tell them, Well, we have to go back and create a child account. So I would so much more prefer that parents set up those child accounts up front so they can take control than to have a negative experience and then have to set it up reactively.
Larry: Good. Well, that’s good advice. And I’m hoping that parents that are listening to this, you know, at least consider the controls and again, think about what you need for your family. One size does not fit all. We actually have a parent’s guide to parental controls where we talk about how to introduce them and also how to wean a child off of them on the realization that eventually you mentioned, you have older kids.
I have older kids. Obviously we don’t have parental controls that on, on their, you know. They’re adults, they do what they want, but hopefully when they were younger, they got the kind of education and parenting that’s going to last them for the rest of their lives so that the control of that filter in their brain is fully functioning.
At least that’s what I hope as a parent of an adult, two adult children. So far, they’re proving me right. Well, Catherine, I want to thank you very much for taking the time. We really appreciate your expertise. Catherine Jensen, the VP of Global Consumer Experience. At Sony Interactive Entertainment, we really appreciate your time.
Catherine: Thank you again for having me.